Welcome to season two of Common Shapes! Since last season, I took a big step in my life and logged out of Instagram for good.
So in this episode, I’m going to share why I left and how I did it. Not from a place of knowing-it-all, but by asking the question, “what does it actually mean to be done with social media?”
I hope this episode inspires you to take supportive steps that are right for you. Tune in to learn about—
What it’s like to leave Instagram
The portal of the validation loop
A big business success moment since leaving
Is Substack social media?
Weaving the personal, poetic & political
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“I left Instagram with 28 ,000 people subscribing to my newsletter. I absolutely do not think you need a number anywhere close to that to leave Instagram. I’m sharing my numbers as transparently as I can, but I want it to feel possible for you as well without that many newsletter subscribers. Just start your email list.”
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Introducing Season Two: Common Shapes Podcast
[0:00] Hello, and welcome to Common Shapes season two.
I'm so happy to be here as your host. I'm Mar Marlee Grace.
This is a podcast about practices, systems, and rituals for a creative life.
And if you're listening today, welcome back. Welcome back to the show.
Happy to have you here. I had a great time making season one and took a much -needed break as I figured out the business and creative ecosystem that includes having a podcast.
It's a lot of work, but it's also, it's like just another channel, and sometimes I feel like there's so many channels between me and the people.
[0:52] You know, I send a weekly newsletter that often comes out twice a week. I teach.
I'm writing a book. I'm talking to my neighbors.
So I think the space between season one and two was sort of this stretch of time to try to understand what the podcast wanted to be.
And the good news is I don't have any more clarity.
Lesson Learned: Hit Record Even Without Clarity
[1:23] So that is lesson number one of season two. You don't have to be clear to hit record.
Introducing the Creative Ideation Portal and its benefits
[1:32] All right, so what are we going to talk about today?
Well, the first thing I'll say that I love to say is I would love if you downloaded the Creative Ideation Portal, just like in season one.
It's still here in season two. It is three days of journaling, writing, visioning about your creative projects.
It's totally free. You can grab it in the show notes.
MarleyGray .space slash common shapes is the other place that everything lives on my website.
[2:03] So grab that, let it support you.
That's the first place I tell people to go. If they're like, I don't know where to start, start there and then see what you need after that.
Okay. Today's episode is all about how I left Instagram.
Yes, I left. I logged out September 28th, something like that.
I should probably look, end of September.
And if you've been reading my writing, listening to this podcast, following my life, you know that I've struggled, right?
That I've taken these different breaks and put rules on myself and I quit Instagram.
So I wanna talk about Instagram.
I wanna talk about leaving it. I want to talk about what it's like, I want to talk about my fears, I want to talk about a huge business success moment, and is Substack social media?
Exploring fears, business success, and Substack as social media
[3:04] These are my questions today. Here we go.
Leaving Instagram for Mental Health and Artistic Freedom
[3:11] I don't know exactly.
[3:18] How I got the strength to leave.
[3:23] And strength might sound really dramatic, but it took like a level of strength.
And it's sort of funny that I started with, you don't have to have clarity to hit record.
It's like, you don't have to be strong to leave the thing that isn't working anymore, right?
And so I really just knew that Instagram wasn't working for my mental health, for my relationship to both my art and level of activism.
Like, you know, I don't identify as an activist, but absolutely am someone who weaves in my identity and politics into my work.
And so I just knew that it wasn't working.
It wasn't like bringing me closer to the work at hand. It wasn't bringing me closer to people anymore.
And it was like I would really find myself, of course, just using my phone so much.
But spoiler alert, I'm still using my phone more than I want to.
So I feel like it's important to say that I don't think leaving social media equals suddenly being free of a phone addiction, right?
So that's one thing I've noticed.
[4:45] And I wrote about this a little bit in Monday Monday in the installment called Channeling New Ideas.
[4:53] And yeah, the Gmail app, it's like the search for validation is what I'm in withdrawal from and isn't automatically fixed when we leave Instagram.
So how do you leave Instagram if you're using it for your business?
How to Leave Instagram for Business Purposes
[5:17] I, of course, have to name, as I am known to do on this podcast and in my newsletter, Amelia Hruby, who makes Off the Grid.
If you really want a formula for how to leave social media, go listen to her podcast, especially the first couple episodes.
Really walks you through it.
But I will say for me, what do we need, right? What are we using Instagram for?
We're using it to speak to people and to tell them how to buy the things or interact with the things that we make, right?
Books, newsletters, podcasts, courses, membership sites, objects, experiences, right? It's where we tell people.
It's the channel where we say, hello, it's me.
I've thought about us for a long, long time.
[6:17] Name that movie that that moment is in, it's The Virgin Suicides.
Okay, since I've been gone from hosting this podcast, I watched, I had to take a break between season one and two because I had to watch all of Sex and the City and the two movies and the spinoff and Just Like That.
Okay, so you also, I'm not gonna spoiler anything, but in episode one of and Just Like That, the spinoff, that song happens there as well, okay?
Anyways, the channel of Instagram is where we say, hello, it's me, here's the thing I do.
In order to leave and still have a business, we have to do one of two things.
Invent a new business model, which is totally possible, or move that audience somewhere else.
Right? So having a podcast, having a newsletter, having a Patreon, having somewhere else that is the channel that you tell the people what it is you are doing.
Starting a business without social media?
[7:30] You know, I was joking to someone the other day. I had someone ask me, what would you tell someone who is totally new to starting a business?
It's like starting a brand new business and wants to do it without social media.
And I did have like a pause or like a oof, like.
This is a great question, and I think somewhere that I get like a little bit stuck, but I'm going to try to unpack it a little bit.
One of the things is like, or my response to her was like, I feel like I just spent the last 11 years using Instagram so that I could leave it.
[8:08] So again, metric wise, it was like I left Instagram with 28 ,000 people subscribing to my newsletter.
I absolutely do not think you need a number anywhere close to that to leave Instagram I'm sharing my numbers as transparently as I can But I want it to feel possible for you as well without that many newsletter subscribers I think you could have a couple hundred people on an email list a thousand people on an email list Start your email list. Okay. Are you listening to me?
Are you reading the transcript start your email list?
Listened to the episode in season one called the art of the newsletter, or take my Skillshare class about Substack, or take my old newsletter class, just start an email list.
Owning and moving your email list
[9:01] If you need either of those, just email me.
Just I'm here to help you. I want you to start an email list because the way that I was able to leave Instagram is because I had an email list.
You can use Flowdesk, MailChimp, Substack, Beehive, Ghost, whatever you want to use. Tiny letter.
[9:19] The thing about your email list, you own it, you can move it around whenever you want.
Okay? So again, if you're like, start on MailChimp, and then you're like, I want to move to Substack, or I want to move over here.
You can. You own that list. You can download it and import it into the new email service provider that you're using. Get an email list, okay?
Examining the Motivation Behind Instagram Usage
[9:44] So, I think here's like the part of the experiment for me.
And for any of you who are like into human design, it's part of my human design. I'm a 2 -4 manifester.
It's part of my human design that I'm not here to prove anything.
And so, I tried to be careful with like, am I trying to like prove something?
Like I can do this without Instagram.
And so, I sort of waited for that to pass in some ways to just be like, okay, what is the motivation here.
And I'll name that this was like borrowed from talking to a lot of different people.
But I feel like Instagram from like a recovery standpoint is like the alcoholic, the bar, the alcoholic parent, and the partner of the alcoholic at the same time. And it's alcohol.
Did I say that one already? It's like, it's every form of that addiction for me. It like fills every part of it.
It's like the alcoholic partner who can't show up. It's the alcohol I can't put down. It's the addict parent.
You know, it's whatever it is. It's a mirror of myself as all of these things.
And that was the part that really wasn't working anymore for me was like, you know, I've heard this before around codependency and...
Codependency and Instagram Success
[11:10] Like a great episode of Amelia's podcast, Off the Grid, is with Melissa Word, who I'm a huge fan of, and I feel like they have a lot of good talks in there about this.
But it's just like, where am I healing my codependency everywhere else and finding success in that?
But on Instagram, I wasn't finding success in healing it there.
And so, you know, I'll also say it just wasn't working as well, Right? Like I would post, you know, people love a selfie.
People love when I'm like, 12 years sober today. And then 3000 people like it.
As soon as I'm like, here's a flyer for my class, literally 40 people see it.
And that's okay. But it's just like, that's the inconsistency of the chaos person or the alcoholic or however you want to kind of draw these similarities.
The writer Murphy Barney talked to me about some of this. It's another person to name.
But it's that inconsistency and that going back for more.
It's like, shoot, I didn't get that much attention. I have to try again.
And then you get the attention. I mean, this is also the dance of the anxious and the avoidant in the attachment wound dance, right?
[12:31] And so I wanted to like overpower that.
And as I've talked about on this podcast, it's like I tried everything, like giving over my password, changing what hours I used it.
Setting Rules and Breaking Them: Similar to Alcoholism
[12:43] And this also like drew back to me sort of the alcoholic narrative of, can I just drink gin? Can I just drink on the weekends?
What if I don't drink in the morning? Like I'm gonna put all these rules on my using and then I would break every single rule over and over and over again, I would break the rule.
[13:02] And so it really was...
Similar to so many other things I've left in my life or changed or pivoted was like a deeply spirit -led moment.
It was a Saturday, it was a Saturday night, and I just got this like message from G .O .D. that was like, you're done now. It's done.
You have to leave. You have to stop using it." And it was really like a, you know, I'm not one to like really identify as like a leader.
Like that's not like an archetype or a word I use a lot.
But as like someone like Brene Brown really calls us into like the arena, right?
Of like, I want to be in the arena with the other people. and if I'm going to talk about this relationship and write about it and really look at it with a clear view.
[14:03] Clear eyes, full hearts can't lose.
[14:07] I need to practice not what I preach necessarily, but I need to practice what I practice.
I need to practice leaving the thing before I know if gonna work or not.
How else do you know?" And so, God was like, it's time to leave.
The next morning, I posted I was leaving, and I logged out.
Breaking Free from the Grip of Social Media
[14:35] I'm gonna be honest that I logged back in at some point to just look, maybe a week later, And then I had my dear assistant Hannah change the password and now I really haven't looked again.
And it's been quite freeing. And there's a sorrow to it, which kind of brings me to like, how has it been?
And I had like two relationships this year that were really sort of like, did a lot of like witnessing for me, like a lot of like reflecting back of like, this is how you are, this is who you are, you're hot, you're cool, you're special, you're amazing.
And those two relationships are on pause.
[15:22] And Instagram was sort of that third relationship. Like, I have other relationships where I feel that energy, but these were like, a little more consistent.
And so was Instagram, it was like, I could go there at any time, and like be fed by the validation machine, right?
That's what Instagram kind of became was like the validation machine loop.
And I think that's sort of what Spirit was maybe saying to me, but couldn't name it. Because I think if I had known that that's what it was, I don't know if I would have left. Like, I think I would have been too scared.
I think I would have been like, wait, wait, wait, I can't be without that.
The Struggle of Taking a Break from Social Media
[16:10] You know, I was hesitant to make the first episode about this only because I feel like I know so little at this point, like it's still all sort of like coming to me around.
What does it mean to take a break? What does it mean to be done with Instagram or be done with social media?
I haven't, I never really had Twitter, haven't had Facebook since 2016 or something.
And which also brings us to the question is sub stack social media.
And but first, let me let me continue.
So you know, how has it been, I feel like I'm in this like portal around the validation loop.
And sort of like missing that like parasocial, just like the random urge to share something.
Just like the random urge to be like, here's a hot pick, or like, here's a little thing I want to say.
But I definitely, I'm noticing already.
[17:21] I'm thinking clearer, like I'm noticing things, my attention is pretty rapidly coming back in terms of like being able to read and watch movies, and just get back to people.
So I'm noticing that is good.
Realizing the Negative Impact on Mental Health
[17:45] I'm also noticing like, and I say this with so much love for myself, but like it's worse than I thought.
Like my what has happened to my brain is worse than I could have imagined.
And I feel like I can't fully comprehend things as well, like I'm just noticing the long -term effects on my brain.
And there's nothing that I could do in six weeks to take back 11 years of using this thing.
And that feels kind of serious to say. Bye.
Is Substack Social Media? The Debate Begins.
[18:27] Is sub stack social media? That's the question.
No, is my answer. Well, I think yes and no.
I think if you use the sub stack app, you are absolutely engaging in a social media type thing.
[18:47] There's notes, which is kind of their like Twitter like thing.
And there's like a home. and there's an explore and that looks if it walks like social media and it talks like social media.
Yeah, I guess I'll just say I think that if you're using substack the app and interacting on it, I think you are using social media.
I think if you are sending out a newsletter via Substack, even if you're engaging with comments, I absolutely don't think that is social media.
I think that that is sending a newsletter and engaging in the comments, similar to how a blog worked or how Patreon works.
It's a membership subscription service that you interact with people on a computer or on your phone, but it's not social media.
So I don't think that Substack is inherently social media.
I think that if you utilize the features of it that are, then yeah, you're using social media.
But if you're not using notes or other functions of it, I don't think it's social media.
That's my hot, hot take.
Struggling with Apps, Except Dating Apps
[20:05] But yeah, I can't have the Substack app on my phone. That doesn't work for me.
I'm struggling with the Gmail app. I'm struggling with other apps.
[20:14] Not dating apps, though. Those scare me too much, but blessings to those who use them.
Fear of Leaving Social Media and Need for New Business Plan
[20:24] Okay, my win! I had a win!
So, what's the fear of leaving social media? The fear is, I'm not going to make money anymore, I'm not going to reach people anymore, right? That's the fear.
And so that's sort of like where I said before, like, you need either a new business plan or another channel, and maybe a little bit of both, right?
And I guess I'll sort of explain that in this example of the first like test was, I launched a new season of Flexible Office, my digital co -working space, and.
[21:05] I will share that I had the most signups out of any season of Flexible Office that has ever happened with social media.
So I had more people sign up than ever before.
And one thing that changed, this isn't a change in the business model, but it is a change in like my marketing was that I like went kind of heavy on the emails.
Like I sent an extra email just about Flexible Office the day before it started and so many people signed up.
And you know, I really leaned in to the email marketing side of my newsletter and it worked.
And so I share that just to say, I was really, really afraid that it wasn't going to work.
Acceptance of Potential Loss and Financial Concerns
[22:00] I was afraid that like one thing that did happen, for instance, was like one of my quilt class sessions didn't sell out and usually both do and it only didn't sell out by four spots.
Maybe I'm wrong, but in the past, those four spots have sold when I like blast Instagram stories one more time, like the day or two before.
And so I had left Instagram right before a quilt class started in October.
[22:31] And you know, or I guess with that, it's like, it was a bummer.
[22:37] And that extra $1 ,300 would have certainly been really nice to have.
I was also like in a lot of acceptance around a pay cut. like I was in a lot of acceptance around, like I might lose something in this process. And, Yeah, so I think I was feeling really nervous that I was going to see like another pay cut in flexible office. And I'm grateful to say that I didn't.
I made more money organizing flexible office than I did any other season that I used Instagram for.
And so yeah, that's sort of where it's like the business model might need to change or like the model of your marketing might need to change.
Like you might need to lean in more to your emails or having something like the creative ideation portal, like having your own sort of lead magnet or entry point, right?
It's like we have to lean into these other tools in order to be able to leave this tool that is Instagram.
[23:41] Also, maybe you don't want to leave it and I'll just also say that that's fine. That's okay.
You know, of course, my real – what's the real fear is the question that I keep asking that I've now posed here more than once.
And the other one is that I can't like get another book deal or promote another book without it.
And I do think that having an email newsletter and subscribers that you can show an agent or an editor or a publishing house is really, really helpful.
So I do think that the reality is like we have to show people sometimes that we can reach a certain number of people, and that's why I tell you over and over to get an email list.
Even if you just never send an email, just keep collecting them.
Maybe one day you'll want to.
But yeah, I think I had to accept that it might be true, right?
As much as I'm sitting here, I'm like, I will absolutely write more books, and they will absolutely find people.
If I have to self -publish, publish with a small indie press, whatever it is, I will make more books and they will find the people, period. I do believe that.
And there was part of me that had to accept that.
Shifting Business Models and Success Measures
[25:02] Maybe the level of book, making that I once saw maybe wouldn't be what I see in my lifetime or something.
And I don't even know what that means, whether it's like success of like sales or being on lists or getting press.
Like, I just think that, yeah, I had to really say to myself, like, it's okay if that doesn't happen.
And that's sort of like the shift in business model for me.
And I'll say that my current yearly sub -stack income is about the same as my last book advance.
And so that's an example of the business model changing, is like before, I would get a book advance and write that book, and that book advance would be part of how I paid my rent and lived my life.
And today, my substack gives me about the same amount of money as I got from my last book advance.
And that is a generous amount to be able to pay myself and pay my mortgage and live my life today in addition to, you know, my teaching and other things.
But that's an example of the business model changing. is like I was also able to make the jump because I do monetize my newsletter.
[26:25] But I also have continued to successfully use my newsletter as a place to market my other offerings.
So I really believe that you can do both in that space if it's on Substack, if it's somewhere else.
Writing, Marketing, and Teaching Opportunities
[26:39] I really believe that you can make a personal essay, be a personal essayist, write narrative nonfiction, and still market your other offerings in a newsletter format, whether it's Flowdesk, MailChimp, Substack, et cetera.
[26:54] I wanna just wrap up and say, you know, this was a bit of a channeling ramble, which is a higher version of a ramble. It's led by God.
And thank you for listening.
I think I'm really curious, like, how this episode lands.
So if you wanna email me, info at marleygrace .space, I'd love to hear about it. I think on Spotify you can say what you thought about the episode.
I would love if you shared this episode, either on social media or in your own newsletter or text it to a friend.
That is the best way to get the word out about Common Shapes.
Season two, we've got some amazing guests lined up.
I would also love to just share a couple things coming up. If you're listening in real time, November 21st, I'm teaching a class about putting marketing gems in your newsletter, November 21st, head to the show notes.
And then in December, I'm teaching a writing class.
Exciting December Workshops and Guest Teachers
[27:59] It's the three Sundays, three Sundays in December, writing the personal, and I'm going to let you jump into the show notes to read all about that. But I'd love to have you.
There's two amazing guest teachers, Fareeha Roshin and Anna Fusco.
It's going to be really, really special. So those are two places that I think also will just help nourish your creative spirit off of Instagram, right?
It's like, not only am I off of Instagram, but I will now really be teaching through the lens of not using it and being in it with you guys in terms of like figuring out like, how do we market?
How do we fill our classes?
How do we get creative without totally burning out and losing, you know, our audience, our clients, etc.
And so I hope to keep exploring this on season two.
I think this is a big question I have. It's a big question in the writing the personal class is also around like our politics, our personal politics.
How do we weave them into the work that we're doing? And I sort of mentioned, you know, that Instagram wasn't really feeling like a place that I could do that.
But my newsletter absolutely is a place that I can do that. And I've been doing it now more than ever.
And so, yeah, you're interested in weaving in the personal, poetic, and political, come take class with us in December. It's going to be really, really special.
Support the Podcast and Newsletter on Substack
[29:28] And the best way to find the newsletter, Monday Monday, that I write every week is to go to marleygrace .substack.
That is also the best way to support this podcast. Honestly, if you become a paying subscriber of Monday Monday, it's $7 a month or $70 a year.
That helps pay everyone who makes this podcast possible.
So jump on over there. You can follow me on Instagram if you want, but I won't see it.
And many blessings season two common shapes. Here we go.
Thank you for listening to this episode. Thank you for sharing it.
You are a blessing to me. And to those who may benefit I am sure I'm Marley Grace. I'm your host.
Thanks to everyone who makes this podcast possible. Thanks to Lukeza Branfman Verissimo who made our art.
Thank you to Salt Breaker who made our music and sound effects.
And thank you to Softer Sound Studio for podcast editing and support.
Thank you for listening to Common Shapes. See you next week.
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